[SDSUsnowboards]

The best part is, they haven't been allowed to use ABS in F1 for years, and anyone who has watched a race recently would know that. Because of the way ABS functions (rapidly releasing brake pressure from a wheel that is locked) it is technically worse than perfect threshold braking. The main advantage to running ABS on the track is for panic situations and to avoid flat spots. And many instructors will get students to drive cars with the ABS disabled so they can get a feel for what the brakes are like when the actually lock, and to be better able to find the braking threshold. All that being said, unless it is a deplorably poor, early system that cuts in far too soon, I would recommend leaving it enabled, unless you are building some kind of a stripped down, track only car.

Back on topic, apparently nobody here has driven on a track with the ABS fused pulled - I would be curious. While I agree it is not a 'good' thing to do, answering 'does anyone know what the spyder is like without ABS?' with 'they all came equipped with ABS' is not an answer. He did not ask 'should I remove ABS?' or, 'My ABS isn't working, is it worth it to fix?', so his motive for asking is unknown, and the best we can provide is a clear answer, not a judgmental response.

It would be akin to answering 'What is the Spyder like with a 2ZZ' with 'The Spyder didn't come with a 2ZZ from the factory'.

Now I'm getting curious again. My main motivation for wanting to experiment was to 1. become proficient in all driving conditions/equipment failures and 2. one track has one corner that sets off ice mode almost every time, without fail.

I recall GTAcademy 2013. I was in the top 200 nationwide, trying desperately to find ways to drop my lap time. The car was a 370z, an overweight, understeering POS. I experimented without ABS in a search for a small edge over the competition. Ever other person in the top 48 was using ABS. Removing ABS resulted in having much more control over the attitude of the car on corner entry. Over steer was relatively easy to induce and control using the brake. However, my times were consistently slow at Silverstone by 2+ seconds.

I'm not sure if that experience is translatable to real life. In real life, I would expect flirting with the threshhold would be easier than in a video game, where there is no haptic feedback. My very limited experience with go-karts supports this. Nevertheless, ABS technology is so good these days that I doubt anyone can out drive it. I hear modern ABS on sports cars allows for the ideal amount of tire slip while threshhold braking.

 

[Funkycheeze]

The key is to ensure you have a well calibrated 4 channel system, that only actuates the ABS on the wheel that is locking. If that is the case, keep it - as unless you are braking in a straight line, it will let you apply extra braking force to the more heavily loaded wheels, while preventing a total lock-up on the unloaded wheels. For braking in a straight line, there can be a tiny advantage to disabling it, as you get a constant braking force to achieve an ideal slip rate on the tire, instead of the on-off-on-off-on-off that the ABS uses to mimic that precise force level.

Some systems cut in far too early, but you are right - most modern sports cars have good systems.

 

[carlbecker]

I don't race. ABS doesn't do much for me. I have yet to have someone cut me off and stop in front so that I panicked and tried to lock the brakes. I don't tailgate which I suspect is where ABS really comes into play but I still see multiple car pile ups. I have initialized ABS when trying to stop on a very slight down grade that was covered in ice. In that situation I believe locking the front wheels would have created some friction that would have slowed the car feet shorter in distance, at least that has been my historical experience in my truck without ABS. Would I remove ABS...no. I would like a disable switch at times. Generally speaking I don't think technology can perfectly replace technique. Sometimes it allows people to become more lazy, other times it helps when skill levels are not enough. I don't have race driving skills but I am not on a track. I do have many years driving experience with all sorts of idiots on all sorts of roads. Occasionally I am one of the idiots but not very often.

 

[rocwandrer]

If you're braking properly, you should not pass the threshold where the tire locks up. Thus in theory you wouldn't hit the threshold where ABS kicks in. ABS does not prevent your ability to reach the limits of the braking system. It just remedies issues caused when you pass the limits of the system.

I have not had any issues braking into turns (decreasing radius turn complexes) or more importantly trail braking with the car.

I say leave it on. If it's functioning properly it will prevent you from flat spotting your tires at the least.

On an F1 system, or even a good modern car, that is all true. It is not true of the spyder's ABS as soon as you start deviating from the operational environment it was calibrated to. If you have larger diameter front tires than rear, or Avon 20" rolling diameter bias slicks, and you have substantial brake control skills, the car is much faster and more fun with the ABS disabled. I generally leave the ABS enabled. I've already given the two exceptions where I feel ABS is enough of a hindrance to warrant pulling the fuse.

 

[Spargo]

what other racing examples do you need?

in every single form of racing, where ABS is allowed, almost inevitably all teams and drivers employ it.

and where it isn't allowed, even the top drivers, lock the brakes on a regular basis.

f1 is simply the biggest and easiest to point to. but in every form of racing, its the case. what video do you want, touring cars? GT cars? prototypes? WRC cars? what do you need to see?

Its simple, you don't drive a race car - I know the 'because racecar' argument is very popular but race cars also use traction control quite often when they can - I know I'd want it if I was piloting an F1 car - things happen way faster than a human being can react in something that fast. I would never ever want traction control in my spyder though. Again I'm still arguing for keeping the ABS - its not an intrusive system and in a panic stop it can be the difference between life and death - but if you're on a track and you want to better understand the limits of your braking system, go for it.

I have a pretty good example of how ABS saved me once - I came out of a sweeping 45 or 55 mile an hour turn onto a bridge - not racing around just driving my car normally. Bridges freeze first and this one turned into a sheet of ice - I corrected the car a few times wagging down the length of the bridge but I hit a real slippery bit and the car spun backwards. I had burned off maybe half my speed at this point but I didn't want to risk trying to whip the thing back around so I just slammed on the brakes and came to a stop still rolling backwards. The ABS clicked on and stopped the car as best it could on the slick surface, when I came to a stop I couldn't have been more than 5 feet away from a heavy duty mailbox. If not for the ABS I would have certainly hit it on my way off the road into a ditch.

I think the traction control analogy works pretty well though - in a car with TC stock you can often feel it cut in when you drive more spiritedly - so that would be a good argument for shutting it off in a safe place and playing with the limits of the car as the system is interfering with your driving. In ice or snow it would be great to have it, I've used TC systems to get up snowy hills that otherwise seemed impossible to climb, turn on the TC and it makes it look easy. The ABS is different though because it really doesn't cut in very often, you really have to lay on the brakes hard to get it to activate in this car.

-Spargo